Influencers with Andy Serwer: Peggy Johnson

In this episode of Influencers, Andy sits down with Magic Leap CEO Peggy Johnson to discuss developments in wearable technology, the gender imbalance in science and tech-related fields, and her career in the tech industry.

Video Transcript

ANDY SERWER: In this episode of "Influencers," Magic Leap CEO Peggy Johnson.

PEGGY JOHNSON: When the digital and physical worlds merge seamlessly, I think that's the true promise of the Metaverse. We have to not only get more women in, but we need the engineers. We can't just unleash two new technologies to the world and expect others to be responsible for the use of it.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

ANDY SERWER: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Influencers." I'm Andy Serwer. And welcome to our guest, Peggy Johnson, CEO of Magic Leap. Peggy, so nice to see you.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Nice to see you as well. Thanks for having me.

ANDY SERWER: You're welcome. So let's talk a little bit about Magic Leap starting off, because some people may not be familiar with your company. Tell us about what you guys do.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Sure, so we make a head mounted device. You wear it over your eyes. You can actually think of it as a computer on your eyes. And you still see your physical world around you, but we place digital content very smartly in that physical world.

ANDY SERWER: So it's AR, VR, XR? How would you describe it in those terms?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, that's definitely an alphabet soup. And it is augmented reality. And how that's different from virtual reality is virtual reality, usually, you put something on your eyes, and you're fully occluded. You're fully in another virtual world. There are some drawbacks to that because you can't then see your physical world, and you might not see the coffee table in between. But it's largely used maybe more for entertainment and more of a consumer focus.

But augmented reality you can think of as a tool. And it's going to start in the enterprise space. And it just helps people do their jobs more quickly, more efficiently, with this added digital content right in their field of view.

ANDY SERWER: I want to drill down into those enterprise applications, Peggy, but first, you guys did sort of start out as a consumer facing company, right?

PEGGY JOHNSON: We did. So in the early days, when they were first building the product, and--

ANDY SERWER: And when was that?

PEGGY JOHNSON: --the company's been around almost 12 years now. And they did something amazing, which was made the first all up augmented reality system in Magic Leap 1. The device still today is awesome, the initial device. But they pointed the company largely at the consumer market. And the consumer needed some things like content. Content was early days. There weren't augmented reality developers out there in plentiful numbers.

The size of the device was really not really something consumers would wear for a very long time. It was a little bit heavy. And then the cost, you know, it was sold through some consumer channels and side by side with a phone that was much more performance than the device. There wasn't a winning combination there. However, just having gotten the device to where it is was a big start. And then that put us on the road to Magic Leap 2, which was built from the ground up to be used by the enterprise initially.

ANDY SERWER: And you became CEO in September of 2020. Was that transition from consumer to enterprise already underway, or was that something you did?

PEGGY JOHNSON: It was just underway. And so there was a fair amount of change management that we went through at the company. The company had had studios to build content before. And we had to redirect all of those resources toward the enterprise. And also selling into the enterprise quite a bit different. The devices have to have an eye on privacy, security of corporate data.

Also the devices have a lot of sensors on them. There's cameras looking at your eyes and cameras looking at the world. And all of that is very sensitive corporate data in the enterprise world. So we had to ensure that all that was protected, managed by the corporate IT infrastructure manager, all very different-- kind of a different muscle than pointing at the consumer. So the company had to learn all of that as well along the way.

ANDY SERWER: And just to follow up on the consumer side, so is it safe to say maybe or fair to say it was ahead of its time? And is it sort of somewhat like what Oculus is at Facebook, a little bit like that?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, definitely ahead of its time. In fact, Magic Leap has been in the industry, I think, for much longer than most of the players that we hear about now-- over a decade, as I said. And so it was ahead of its time, but the vision was right. And the tech and the ability to make the tech had to catch up. For me, I think of it as just like mobile phones. So that was the industry I grew up in. I spent 25 years at Qualcomm. And they went through that same trajectory.

They started-- pointed, really, at businesses because they were bigger. They were costly, but they solved a problem for businesses. And that is why we chose to pivot toward businesses because the tech in its current format today-- and it has revved since Magic Leap 1, so we've made a lot of improvements. But it's really best pointed at the enterprise because it can solve real problems.

ANDY SERWER: Right.

PEGGY JOHNSON: For enterprise.

ANDY SERWER: And it's interesting. I mean, sometimes there's the consumerization of tech, and sometimes business tech takes the lead. I mean, been around seeing both of those trends. So let's delve into what the product does very specifically. What are the applications? What businesses? What problems can it solve?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Right, so we-- we're pointed enterprise. And then we further narrowed that to a handful of fields that we see as the low hanging fruit for augmented reality tools, like we build. And that's healthcare. So we have surgeons who use it for pre-surgical planning. They plan out where incisions will be. They can actually look at the patient and draw digital markers on the patient.

They can actually see a heart in 3D imagery in front of their eyes, for instance, if you're a cardiac surgeon and you're putting a catheter into the heart. It's typically done with a 2D screen, and your mind is seeing what a 3D image looks like on a 2D screen, but your mind is working to really see what the heart looks like.

But now you imagine putting the heart in front of your eyes and the surgeon being able to thread that catheter with much more precision. And we have a company called [INAUDIBLE] who does that. And it's actually, they've imaged the heart. It's the live heart in front of the surgeon's eyes. So it's pretty awesome.

Defense is another big one in public sector. Any sort of training, any command and control scenarios where you might have people working on an emergency disaster scenario. You might have people in the room who are looking at the digital content, and then experts outside the room who can look at the same digital content. But it's a great training tool because it saves a lot of costs. You don't have to have physical assets. You can just have digital assets to train on.

And then lastly, largely an industrial setting. Manufacturing facilities, the frontline workers there have this computer on their eyes, and their hands have full mobility and access to do their job. So they're hearing spatial audio. They might be seeing videos. They might be seeing a digital twin of a machine in front of them that they can walk through the steps to repair and get that machine back online. So those are the focus areas. Eventually, we'll circle back to other areas of business, and then consumer at the right time.

ANDY SERWER: Hmm. So it must be a challenge and an opportunity to get customers to be trained to use these things. I mean, the sort of selling part would involve a lot of high touch relationships, right?

PEGGY JOHNSON: It does, particularly in the beginning. And again, I roll back to mobile phone days when we had put all of-- I was at Qualcomm. We put all the data protocols into the phone. And all people wanted to do with it was download ringtones. And that was the big thing. And it was like, no, this is the internet and the phone. And so we are kind of at that same trajectory. You have to first train the users of it what the technology can do.

And what we're trying to do is just solve one or two things initially. And that's things like just 3D visualization, which is just so much cognitively easier to understand something when you can put the 3D image in front of you. Training, having people up and on a production line much more quickly. We've got a company who's saving-- I don't know-- something like 80% of their training costs.

PBC Linear is a small manufacturing company in the Midwest-- from what they used to do, which was gather everybody in a room for a certain period of time. You're going through books. You're seeing PowerPoints and things. Now they can just put the device on and literally get out on the factory floor in a fraction of the time that it used to take to train them. So we've got to solve real world problems. It has to be tangible. It can't be hyped. It's got to be doable today. And that's where we're focused.

ANDY SERWER: You mentioned privacy before, Peggy, so what are the challenges there? And then how do you solve them? And does that translate to issues of privacy when it comes to consumers?

PEGGY JOHNSON: I think it does. And I think we have to get ahead of this. This device has much more imagery and sensors that go far beyond, say, what a phone does. And I think we're already concerned about our data on a phone. So we need to from the get-go protect that data, whether it's corporate data or consumer data. For instance, the camera's looking at your eyes. You can do a bio identity of somebody. And so we have to be careful, keep that data secure.

The good thing about our company, Magic Leap, is the only thing we do is build a platform, an augmented reality platform. We don't have a business model where we're dependent on that data. And so from from our standpoint, that's highly personal data that needs to be contained and protected at all times and only released when the user or the company is allowing that.

ANDY SERWER: Tell us more about Magic Leap, the company-- where you headquartered, how many employees, public, private?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, so we are a private company. We are headquartered in booming South Florida. There's a lot going on down there right now, though I would say Magic Leap is sort of the OG of the area. We've been around for so long. We have about 1,100 employees. And basically, it just works for us.

The previous CEO had the foresight to actually buy an old Motorola mobile phone factory, which is in Plantation, Florida, just outside of Fort Lauderdale. And it was just right for us. We had to make those optics from the ground up. And again, it was something that hadn't been done before. Nobody had ever tried to make this type of viewing capability in a piece of glass, which is what we've made ours out of.

And so glass substrate comes in one end of the factory, and these highly tuned optics come out the other end. But it's been quite an advantage for us to have the engineers on the second floor and the factory on the first floor because they're not flying to some far flung factory. They're right there. They go down the stairs.

ANDY SERWER: That's amazing. So it's still cost effective, though?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Much more. Yes, absolutely cost--

ANDY SERWER: More so?

PEGGY JOHNSON: --effective. Yeah, I believe so because the the latency-- I would say it really helped us get to that first product in as quick a time as possible, because when you think about the mobile phone industry, there were a lot of players in that industry putting in IP and building these phones. It was largely just Magic Leap for years. And having the factory there and allowing us to spin those optics very, very quickly has been a major advantage for us. And it keeps the costs down now because we're making them ourselves. And that's what [INAUDIBLE].

ANDY SERWER: And you don't have to make them in Mexico or China or Vietnam.

PEGGY JOHNSON: No, we do send the optics assembly to Mexico for the rest of the assembly. So the casing and then the packaging, flash it with software, and then it comes back to our distribution centers in the US.

ANDY SERWER: Right.

PEGGY JOHNSON: So that was one capability that we didn't have in that factory, but it's quite an asset for us.

ANDY SERWER: Right, no, that's a great story. When you talk about your work, who are your competitors? Because, again, we know all about the consumer facing companies that are trying to do this, but what about on the enterprise side?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, and just to talk about the consumer facing companies, there are some devices out there that you'll see, largely, they solve one problem. And that's great. There's use cases they're solving for. Those are great use cases. But they're not highly immersive augmented reality. And by that, I mean, many of them are just heads up displays. So you put the lenses on, and maybe there's notifications across the top. There's some cues that help you do your job better, or as a consumer, might be entertaining you or showing you where to walk to the next building you have to go to. And that's all fine.

Ours is quite a bit different in that we are the most immersive augmented reality device out there. So the digital content that are in front of your eyes in Magic Leap is very accurately placed, so much so that we have to trick your eyes into thinking it's there. So if you had the glasses on, and I set some digital content here, it can't move, you know, unless it's meant to. But it can't move. And you look away, and it should still be there. It needs to be there, and your eye needs to believe it's there. So that's the complexity of it that makes it quite a bit different for many of the consumer-- early consumer devices, I would say, that are on the market.

And I would say the only real competitor in our category is Microsoft's HoloLens. And HoloLens is also in the enterprise space. But they took a different path than us. They have a standalone device that has the battery and the compute all in the headset, which tends to make it a bit heavy, a bit hot. And we've kept the compute pack down. You can hook it to your belt or your waistband.

And that's been a real lifesaver for us because that means the headset is only like a pair of Bose over the ear headphones. It's super lightweight, and that has really helped us in a lot of use cases, particularly in training personnel that want to wear it for eight, nine hours. It can't be hot, and it can't be heavy.

ANDY SERWER: Right. You worked at Microsoft, so you know the company. How serious is Microsoft about this? Because sometimes you see Google and their Skunk Works things, and, you know, they're doing it, but are they as passionate about it as, say, a standalone company like yours is?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Well, certainly, that's a bit of an advantage for us because that's all we do. But, you know, Satya had written in his book that augmented reality is one of the pillars of new technologies going forward. So I think they're pretty serious. But we do have the advantage of being able to focus. That's it. We don't have to think about any of the other divisions because there are no other divisions at Magic Leap. It's just all we do.

ANDY SERWER: Yeah. I want to go back and ask you some more about Microsoft. But first, what is-- so there are all these sort of different UX's, right? There's Google Glasses. There's Glasses. There's-- Snap has some consumer glass-- I know most of the consumer stuff. I'm sorry.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, Lenses.

ANDY SERWER: But, you know, Lenses and then there's the Oculus thing where I walked off a building with Sheryl Sandberg and all that stuff, right? So what is it going to be ultimately? I mean, probably the answer is a lot of different things, right?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, we've taken an open platform approach. So we have decided that we, you know-- I will say-- let me back up. When we first built the product in Magic Leap 1, we couldn't get anybody to add the augmented reality elements to the operating system. So none of the big guys-- or they said, yeah, OK, we'll add those. And it would sit on a list somewhere.

ANDY SERWER: Yeah, right.

PEGGY JOHNSON: So the previous team took the decision to build their own operating system. And I do think the decision at the time was the right one. It was the only way they were able to get that whole end-to-end system up and running and actually put it on someone's eyes and have them use it. But we, about a year ago, made the decision that in order to become more open and not have to train people on our operating system, we would adopt Android's open source platform. And so we're Android based now.

And we've also adopted other platforms. So we have Microsoft's MRTK platform is integrated to it. We're in the process of integrating with Nvidia's Omniverse. So we're trying to stay as open and flexible as possible so that we can tap into the broader developer community because that was a constraint of ours in the beginning when we had Magic Leap 1.

ANDY SERWER: You didn't mention iOS. Is that just because it's only consumer or--

PEGGY JOHNSON: Largely only consumer, yeah, yeah.

ANDY SERWER: So that wouldn't be a priority at this point?

PEGGY JOHNSON: At this point, no. I mean, we're Android based, and there's a lot of devs that come with that. And as long as the platforms then that sit on top of that carry in enterprise devs, we're good. And we're building that enterprise ecosystem now.

ANDY SERWER: All right, let me throw out a word at you, Peggy-- Metaverse.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Ah.

ANDY SERWER: Right? Is there an enterprise Metaverse?

PEGGY JOHNSON: There is.

ANDY SERWER: Or is that just a consumer thing, Ready Player One?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, there a lot of Ready Player One out there.

ANDY SERWER: Right.

PEGGY JOHNSON: I have a bit of a reaction to Metaverse because I think actually if you Google Metaverse, what comes up is it's a virtual reality world. And while it is that, I think that that's constraining to what I think is the true promise of the Metaverse. And that is this heads up world where our head can come back up from our phones, set the phone down, and you're back in your physical world. And the data that you were seeking on your phone just lives very comfortably in your field of view. And you don't trip over the coffee table.

So you're mobile. You can keep going about your work. And it's just augmenting how you're viewing your digital content. So it's really when the digital and physical worlds merge seamlessly, I think that's the true promise of the Metaverse. I think a subset of that is virtual reality and virtual reality worlds. And there's use cases for that. But in the broader context, I think it's going to be AR.

ANDY SERWER: But is there a consumer-- so in other words, is there a consumer Meta-- I mean, excuse me, an enterprise metaverse. In other words, OK, I'm going to go to work. And it's like, hey, boss. And, you know, like, it would be a whole work world that's like that.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, now I do think there--

ANDY SERWER: Is that possible?

PEGGY JOHNSON: That is, in some ways, possible. I think where we're going to start is 3D meetings.

ANDY SERWER: Hmm, right.

PEGGY JOHNSON: And but actual 3D meetings, not dancing avatars with my hair just the way I want it. I think a 3D meeting that you can actually get work done, where you've got a CAD drawing in front of you. And one of your engineers is in Munich, and the other one is in Brazil, and you're in the US. And you're all working on the same data, and you're all able to annotate, modify, delete, move things around. That is going to be then the start of what I think will maybe reduce all of our flights on planes because you can have now a good conversation with your family someday.

ANDY SERWER: Is your work connected to that sort of end goal potential--

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, I mean--

ANDY SERWER: --potentially?

PEGGY JOHNSON: --we think about multi-users in a room. We want to make that the best experience. We're building a lot of this into our platform so that our developers can then access those features and capabilities and develop their own way of operating that 3D meeting. So we're putting a lot of the core elements of that into our platform, and then opening it up to our devs, the broader developing community, to make their own work worlds as they see them.

ANDY SERWER: And how does artificial intelligence factor in here? And how is that connected to what you guys are doing?

PEGGY JOHNSON: It does and in a big way. So for instance, we have a collaboration with Lowe's and Nvidia. So Lowe's, the do it yourself store, their associates, as they're called, on the floor, they want to be able to quickly scan an aisle, see where there's stock missing. But to do that, the device has to first map out the area and then be intuitive enough to know, ah, there's something missing over there. Do an image recognition on it and say what's missing over there is a box of plywood or something. That's probably not something, a box of plywood, but a box of nails.

ANDY SERWER: A box of nails. That's what I was about to say.

PEGGY JOHNSON: A box of nails--

ANDY SERWER: A box of nails, right.

PEGGY JOHNSON: --should be on that shelf. And that type of capability, that image-- quick image recognition is now, with the help of NVIDIA, we can tap into their Omniverse, which is a whole plethora of tools for AR and VR developers, have-- offboard that data, have it assessed. And it comes back and it says it's a box of nails. It needs to go on this shelf. And here's where you get the supply, over down and around the corner.

So it's helping the floor associates do their work faster with less rework, really. And that was just highlighted the other day. And I think it's the start of how people can actually envision floor workers finally getting the computers that we all have on our desktop. Now they are having them to help them do their job better on their eyes.

ANDY SERWER: Peggy, have you thought about potential regulatory framework for the work you're doing and/or AR and/or AI?

PEGGY JOHNSON: I think--

ANDY SERWER: It's a lot.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, it is a lot, and I think we've learned from the releases of previous versions of all sorts of technologies, even going back to the mobile phone, that we have to be responsible. We can't just unleash new technologies to the world and expect others to be responsible for the use of it. We have to think about, what can this technology do? What are the good things, but also what are the harmful things that it might do if put into the wrong hands or in the wrong scenarios?

And so I believe it's going to be a mix of companies, along with government organizations, probably academia as well, coming together to help write these guidelines and rules for how to operate in the Metaverse and make sure we're doing it right from the start, rather than saying five years down, oops, we should have thought about that, you know. There's cameras on these things we need to protect the user from day one.

ANDY SERWER: Yeah, I was talking to someone the other day. Maybe we need to rethink that move fast and break things.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Exactly.

ANDY SERWER: Right? And that's becoming a little jaded, at least in my mind.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Exactly.

ANDY SERWER: You mentioned Qualcomm and working there.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah.

ANDY SERWER: What did you do there? What was that like? How many women were in similar capacities?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Almost none. [INAUDIBLE] We're going way back now. So I started way back. But I was there 25 years. I remember being really one of the first women on the engineering team. So I'm an engineer. I have double E background. And I remember sitting out in the lab, and there were no women to be seen at all. And eventually, some more came on. But it was-- there was definitely a lack of women then. And of course, we weren't graduating that many either.

But frankly, my university asked me to speak at the graduation 20 years later. And I thought, well, I'll talk about how the numbers of women have increased since when I graduated. And when I actually put the numbers side by side, they hadn't. There was like almost no change in the number of women graduating. That, at least, has changed.

And actually, Qualcomm has done a great job. They've got strong diversity efforts now in place. And they're really changing that dynamic. But it was a lonely place, I have to say, and hard to stick with for all those years. And a lot of my close women friends left the field eventually. And after five, 10 years, I say I was sort of the only one standing after a while.

ANDY SERWER: Were you working in San Diego?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, San Diego.

ANDY SERWER: Right, at Qualcomm. And so I think on your LinkedIn page, you say you're passionate about getting more women into STEM roles. So how are you trying to affect that change, Peggy?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Well, I say yes to just about every opportunity to beat that drum because we have to not only get more women in, but we need the engineers. It's sort of this untapped community. But in order for them to come in, they have to feel included and have the right environments that wouldn't cause them to leave after a few years, like so many of my colleagues did. And so that's changing as well. We definitely have companies who understand that. They're working to have the most inclusive environments.

And so I take part in any of the STEM discussions or go visit university students or even grade school students because young women tend to get biased away from math, thinking they can't do it. And that's something that we have to really get an early handle on because it happens around fourth grade where there starts to be a bias. And so we've got to make them understand that it is cool to be an engineer. It can be a fun and challenging and great career.

ANDY SERWER: And want to talk about your time at Microsoft. And I understand you were Satya Nadella's first hire. Is that right?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah, he was new to the job. And--

ANDY SERWER: As a CEO, his first--

PEGGY JOHNSON: As a CEO.

ANDY SERWER: Oh, wow.

PEGGY JOHNSON: As a CEO, yes. And he reached out, and I didn't know Satya, frankly. We had worked with Microsoft when I was at Qualcomm, but it was the previous CEO, Steve Ballmer, and mostly from a chip capacity. You know, they were a customer of Qualcomm's. And so I had never met Satya before. And when he reached out, I was still thinking, oh, I'm not going to just trade one big company for another big company. But he convinced me to come up to the campus. And he convinced me to join. He had such a vision for the company. And if you remember back then, you know, it was--

ANDY SERWER: It was kind of stuck in the doldrums.

PEGGY JOHNSON: It was.

ANDY SERWER: Right?

PEGGY JOHNSON: And he said, I'm going to change this place. And he did. He did.

ANDY SERWER: And what was your role there?

PEGGY JOHNSON: I was running the business development. So it was all of business development across the company, which was interesting. Qualcomm, we were very chip focused. This was literally everything from Cloud to Xbox to Office and everything in between. And it was a challenging job, but it was a wonderful job. I learned so much in the six years I was there.

ANDY SERWER: And how did you transition from being an engineer to being a CEO in terms of understanding how to manage people in the lead?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Well, that's interesting. I actually moved over from engineering to the business side when I was at Qualcomm. But it took me-- it was weeks and weeks where I was thinking about the job. They had offered me a job on the business side, and I would go back to the engineers and sit in the lab and go, should I take it? They'd be like, no, no, you don't want to go to the business side. You have to dress up. You're going to-- you can't wear your Qualcomm t-shirt anymore. You know, he was like, it's a different world.

It was actually two buildings back then. There was the engineering building at Qualcomm, and then there's the business building. And they were across the parking lot, and I thought, you know, they're right. They're right. I'm not going to make the change. And then it just kept nagging at me. And I finally made the change because I realized I was passionate about that engagement with the customer. I loved to be in front of the customer to convince them-- first to educate them on the technology, convince them it was the technology for them. I love that part of it.

And, you know, you have to follow what you're passionate about. And that's what I did and started to take on more and more larger teams along the way and just always stayed very team focused. I like to hear everyone's voice. I'm a quiet person, actually, quite introverted. And I knew what it was like when I was in the room, but sort of not noticed. So I wanted to always make sure that everybody on my team had a voice. And that's kind of been my management style all the way through to today.

ANDY SERWER: And where do you hope to take Magic Leap? I mean, you talked about having aspirations to expand in enterprise and maybe to go back stronger into consumer. Where could this company go?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Right, so short-term, we're getting ready to launch Magic Leap 2 in another week here on September 30 to general availability. We've had pre-production units out there and been testing them with a lot of partners. So that's my near-term focus. I want to make that successful launch, and going forward, build the ecosystem of solutions on the platform. And that will then be the engine, again, going back to the mobile phone scenario, that'll start running, will broaden out to the rest of enterprise education, areas like that, and then back to consumer.

But we're not quite ready for consumer yet because until the silicon integrates further and there's less components in there, we can't really get to those glasses format in the fully immersive AR that we do. So that'll take a little bit of time, but it doesn't mean the tech isn't ready to be useful in the enterprise space. So near-term, enterprise, long-term, consumer.

ANDY SERWER: And final question, Peggy, have you thought about summing up your life's work? I mean, you've still got many decades to go, but your legacy and what you're really trying to do as an executive and as a human being here.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Well, I definitely see this-- and it's why I took the job, by the way, is I see augmented reality as the next paradigm in computing. And it feels to me the same way the mobile phone did in the early days. Like, this is going to be a thing. It's definitely going to be more than just a handful of businesses buying it. This is the start of something.

And mobile phones were. I feel that same feeling about augmented reality. I think it's going to be the next tool that we all have on, hopefully someday even in contact form, so you don't even notice that it's in there. But it's helping you. It's a tool that all of us will have to do their jobs better and to live and work and play better.

ANDY SERWER: I look forward to seeing that, pun intended.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Yeah. Thank you.

ANDY SERWER: Peggy Johnson, CEO of Magic Leap, thank you so much for your time.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Thanks, Andy. Appreciate it.

ANDY SERWER: You've been watching "Influencers." I'm Andy Serwer. We'll see you next time.