Buying a home is likely the biggest financial decision you'll ever make and you probably have a lot of questions before making a purchase.
We’ve been getting monthly updates from the ground floor from Realosophy Realty’s John Pasalis and Oakwyn Realty’s Steve Saretsky, who help make sense of it all, with advice for anyone buying or selling a home.
They answered your questions about government policy, mortgage rates, timing the market, and where to buy in Ontario and Western Canada, and more.
Jessy Bains is a senior reporter at Yahoo Finance Canada. Follow him on Twitter @jessysbains.
JESSY BAINS: Welcome back. I'm Jessy Bains with Yahoo Finance Canada. You're watching "Editor's "Edition. And today we are talking real estate. We've got a budget filled with housing measures, certain types of mortgages going through the roof, and a central bank poised to raise rates to levels we haven't seen in years. All that and more with John Pasalis of Realosophy Realty. He's joining us from Toronto. Thanks for being here, John.
JOHN PASALIS: Thanks for having me again.
JESSY BAINS: And Oakland Realty's Steve Saretsky from Vancouver. Thanks for being here, Steve.
STEVE SARETSKY: Looking forward to it as always. Let's do it.
JESSY BAINS: So we're going to get into all of that that I just mentioned. But I'm going to do things a little bit differently this time. And it will make sense at the end why. But let's start with questions, because we have a lot of questions. There's a lot going on in the markets. There's talk about a potential slowdown. So let's just get to it.
For starters, we have Andres. I hope I'm saying that right. Hello, great and insightful show. Thank you. But I still have a question.
How do you account for inflation versus interest rates in your predictions in the Vancouver market? I understand the restraints generated by higher interest rates and the logic that will force prices down. Still, in my practice-- and he's an architect, works at an architecture firm-- still, in my practice, we're getting quotes for the value of construction per square foot increasing over 60% compared with the previous years. Municipalities are taking ages to approve.
There are shortage of materials and labor. Are we bracing for a crash or a big "squeeze? Steve, I'll let you answer this one since you're the our expert on the Vancouver market.
STEVE SARETSKY: It's a really good question. I think that it really just depends on can developers or builders pass these costs onto the end user? Do they feel they can pass these on to the end user? I think as it's been over the last 12 to 18 months, they've been able to do that. I think there's a little bit more cautious or skepticism that they're going to be able to continue to pass these expensive or rising building costs through to the end user.
We're certainly seeing a pullback in demand. I think we're seeing some prices come off a little bit in the suburbs and some of those really hot, frothier markets. So I think if I'm a home builder and developer, I'm like, well, maybe I'm going to hold off a little bit, because I don't know what the demand looks like 12 months out from now. Again, rising costs, uncertainty, the ability to complete a house on time, these are all part of the equation that we have to factor in.
So do I think that we could see a pullback in, say, new housing starts? I think that's possible. And so yeah, it's definitely worth bearing. But I think the big thing here is really, yeah, inflation, rising rates, the ability to pass it on to the end users is all up in the air right now.
JESSY BAINS: It's interesting times, indeed. The next one comes to us from Neeraj. Neeraj says, I frequently watch your discussions on Yahoo Finance about real estate. And let me tell you that you guys are very good at what you do. They are indeed very good at what they do. And I thank you. It's nice, in our business, to hear positive feedback like that. So thank you.
Neeraj says, I was watching a recent video in which John Pasalis mentioned about the price rise being the product of government policy that's been trying to inflate home prices. So let's have a listen to that clip. I know what he's talking about. Have a listen.
JOHN PASALIS: This rise was not an accident. These things just don't happen out of the blue. This is really a product of government policy that has been trying to inflate home prices. Pre COVID they were doing that. And they've leaned on it even more.
JESSY BAINS: OK, so he says, I would call myself slightly unqualified, or a novice, when it comes to really understanding this. So can you please elaborate for me what it means in terms of government policies and the above point that John Pasalis described in the video. Appreciate if you could help me understand. So John, if you could reiterate, clarify what you mean when you say that?
JOHN PASALIS: OK. [LAUGHS] It's a good question. It's difficult once I'm back. But I'll try to give two main examples. The first is, certainly our federal government is ramping up our population growth well ahead of what it was in the Harper government and previous administrations. And they know that housing completions can't keep up.
And when we talk about the supply-demand imbalance, part of it is we know if you're going to ramp up your population growth by 40%-- we were growing by about 350,000 people per year-- one of the half a million. Well, if you can't build homes fast enough, you are deliberately trying to drive home prices up. So that's just one example at the federal level.
But when we think what the central bank, went COVID hit, the rates fell. Tiff Macklem, Bank of Canada governor specifically said they're leaning on housing. When people were concerned about a bubble a year ago, the response was, we'll take all the growth that we can get. Part of the policy of driving rates down was to actually stimulate the housing market.
So it's not just the federal government. The Bank of Canada has leaned on rising home prices to stimulate our economy. And this has been a trend for years, this idea that rising home prices, we're leaning on that as the driver of economy. And people take out money from their HELOCs. They buy stuff.
And it's really one of the reasons why house prices in Canada have outpaced so many other countries, because we're really dependent on rising home prices to stimulate our economy.
JESSY BAINS: Right, and we've looked at charts on this show in the past, showing how housing has overtaken, in terms of the chunk of our economy, things like research and development, and investment in machinery, and things like that. And it is a very complicated thing, as you mention, immigration, the prime minister, just yesterday, was saying that part of the problem is that we've had rapid immigration. But he almost threw the ball back to the court of municipalities to build more housing. So I guess there are a lot of cooks in the kitchen and it's-- it's a tough nut to crack.
Neeraj has a follow up question. Neeraj asks, I also want to know, what do you foresee with regard to the house prices in the near future? Just wondering if the prices will keep soaring or stabilize? So let's break this up. John, I'll let you talk about your backyard, the GTA. What do you think? We keep hearing about a slowdown, fewer offers.
But what does that look like? Is that a stabilization? Do they keep rising or something else entirely? What do you think?
JOHN PASALIS: It's a great question. So right now, the market is very confusing for a lot of buyers, because you have the amazing homes still selling for crazy prices. You have some homes selling for what's market value, you'd think. And then you have other homes selling for 100 grand less than what they would have sold for two months ago.
So right now, the market, I'd say, is, on average, stabilizing. But if it continues to slow down, you might see some Downward? pressure on prices. No one really predicted that. I certainly didn't. But no one predicted five-year mortgage rates would be a 4% right now. And I think that's potentially going to have a very big impact on people's affordability.
So I suspect, over the next six to nine months, we're actually going to probably see either some stability or some slight downward pressure. We're not going to see a 30% decline, but certainly when there are fewer offers, fewer bidders, homes are going to sell for a little bit less than when there were 15 and 20 offers on homes.
JESSY BAINS: And even, as you say, we're not going to see a 30% decline. Even if we did get that 30% decline, we have first-time buyers frothing on the sidelines, waiting for their opportunity. But 30% is just going to get us back to not even pre COVID levels, I guess just a few months ago, depending on how you look at it, yeah. So, yeah, unfortunate news for first-time buyers, the continued, long-suffering, first-time buyers in this country.
Steve, what about in the Vancouver area? This has come up many times during our discussions is the way the GTA mirrors Vancouver. So do you see a similar situation playing out in terms of prices? Because that's the thing that everybody wants to know about. What's going to happen with prices?
STEVE SARETSKY: Yeah, I think we're in-- I think the markets in price-discovery mode right now. I think that, like John said, there's still the occasional house you see, oh, that's a really big price. Do they not realize the market's shifting? So you're still seeing some of that.
And then you're seeing a lot of things where I would argue, some of these detached houses in the suburbs, buyers today are probably paying $100,000, $125,000 less than what they would have paid six to eight weeks ago. So I think there's already some price discounting. And we've seen examples.
Again, I think most of the correction that you're seeing in prices is actually in the suburban markets, where most of the froth was. So we've seen examples over the last couple of weeks where if you go back to the peak of the market, mid-February sort of thing, you look at some of these townhouses in a complex that were maybe selling for $900,000, which were huge numbers, places that were listed at like 799,000 going for in the 900,000s. The same units are coming on right next door in the same complex.
And they're being listed at 799,000 with no offer dates. And two weeks later, they're still available. And so what are they going to sell for, 780,000, 785,000? So we're seeing price discounting already in parts of the really frothy markets.
JESSY BAINS: Right, so question for you, Steve. When you see houses coming-- it looks like they're not going to get what they want in terms of price, are you finding-- are you seeing, expecting, that some buyers are just going to pull their house off the market and wait for something to change? And maybe if there are sellers, if there are sellers like that who are pulling their houses off the market, waiting for something better, could they end up in a situation that's actually even worse?
STEVE SARETSKY: Yeah, I think that's a real scenario. I still think of mortgage rates stay where they are today, which is basically 4%, I think we're going to see prices correct. And I don't know if that's just 5% or if that's something greater than that. But that's my view.
I think affordability is a huge challenge right now. We've had a huge run-up in prices. And now you throw on mortgage rates that have moved from about 2 and 1/2% to 4% in like six or seven weeks. That's a massive move.
And so there's bit of a shock in the market right now. And there's a lot of buyers that are like, maybe I should wait this out. It's kind of a tough dilemma, because they're looking at it and saying, listen, I've got a mortgage rate hold today that expires in 45 days. And I've got a mortgage rate at 3.2%. I've got to use it in 45 days otherwise it expires and my new rate's going to be 4.2%.
And is the price going to come down enough to offset that new mortgage cost? And so that's the question that a lot of home buyers seem to be asking, at least when they're chatting with me, that's a lot of the conversation right now. And so I think demand is somewhat kind of paralyzed right now.
JESSY BAINS: So and just to keep this topic a little bit, Steve, so you're referring to 4% in the fixed-mortgage space, right? So are enough buyers out there just completely disregarding fixed mortgages, and just thinking them-- all their budgeting is done through the variable mortgage, and the fixed rate just doesn't much matter?
I know that the banks like to push fixed rates on consumers for a variety of reasons. But if you're not listening to the bank when they're calling you to lock in to fix, and you're looking at variable rates, do fixed rates even much matter?
STEVE SARETSKY: I'd love to hear John's thoughts on this, but basically, what I'm seeing is you've got your variable today. It's still at about two. Obviously, the Bank of Canada is probably going to raise rates tomorrow, maybe 50 basis. Your variable is going up. It's probably going up to 2 and 1/2% here pretty quickly.
But the funny thing is though, conversations that I'm having, it seems like everybody is, I think, making, arguably, the wrong decision, which is everybody's panicking into locking in five-year fixed rates at 4%. So I think the messaging, and the media out there, and the bank economists, and everyone's going, oh, my gosh. Inflation, rates are going up. You know, 4% turns into 5%, turns into 6%. And it seems like people are actually panicking and locking in, and opting to go on the fixed side of things.
And again, I still think there's a huge discount. I still think that expectations for rate hikes are way too high. I mean, eight rate hikes this year I think is-- I don't think it's going to happen. But yeah, I think people are panicking into fixed rates at high levels in my opinion.
JESSY BAINS: Interesting. Just a quick programming note, we are recording this before the Bank of Canada widely expected to raise 50 basis points. But we shall see. It's called a super-sized rate hike. It's being called and-- I know you've referred to the but we'll get into later. But Steve, I think you believe-- you called some parts of the budget a nothing burger. So it's like the McDonald's-themed housing market these days, nothing burgers, super size.
OK, so John, Steve said he'd like to hear what you have to say. So I would as well. What do you have to say about that?
JOHN PASALIS: Yeah, I mean, I agree with Steve. I think it's interesting to see buyers rushing in at 4%. I mean, I wouldn't be rushing in at 4%.
You have to imagine it also impacts what they can borrow because you're getting stress tested, effectively, what, 200 basis, like two full percentage points above that. So you're usually better off-- I'd be going variable right now. I cannot see variable hitting 4% anytime soon anyways.
So you're going to be probably in a better position if you go variable. And even knowing that rates you're going to be going up at least you 50 to 100 basis points over the next little while, I agree with Steve. I would probably be going variable right now.
JESSY BAINS: Yeah, and there's a bunch of mortgage calculators out there online. So you know, crunch some numbers and see what it would take. And it's going to take quite a few rate hikes to close that gap. And as Steve says, something like eight rate hikes-- we'll see if that's actually going to happen.
OK, let's move on. This one comes to us from Jason. Jason asks, what if-- here's an idea. What if the government introduced a tax on a sale price that goes over and above the asking price? So make it a 50% penalty to the seller on all dollars over ask. Maybe we'd get back to a more reasonable bidding process versus blind bidding. What do you think about that, John?
JOHN PASALIS: Never going to happen. You get a tax? No, never going to happen. [LAUGHS] I mean, people, I think, are missing the point. It's like an auction. I mean, people want transparency, like it's-- imagine the asking price is just listing it for $1 and letting the market decide. It's kind of an irrelevant price, right?
Then people are stuck on this idea that the asking price is meaningful, at least while we have tons of offers. But it's a meaningless price. They may as well just list it for $1. So no, you can't tax someone's gains. I mean, at least without really impacting your ability to get re-elected in Canada, because those capital gains are tax free. So I don't think that's necessarily a solution.
And listen, they talked about ending blind bidding. My feeling is it's probably-- we were just talking about this, coincidentally, today with our agents. My instinct is it's actually probably going to make the market more competitive and probably drive-- like what getting rid of blind bidding gets away with is this-- you know, the one buyer who way over pays. But it creates a lot more anxiety real time if it's an auction scenario.
So I don't necessarily think it's going to be the result of any massive affordability solution. It's probably just going to keep prices elevated. I don't think it's going make a huge difference.
JESSY BAINS: I just imagine couples at auctions with their paddles. And the one spouse wants that house real bad and keeps nudging the partner, like, go. And then the competitive fire comes in and it's like, OK, 5 million to the gentleman in the front who's getting poked by his wife to make this house happen.
JOHN PASALIS: And that's the thing. And an auction, it's real time, right? And there's nothing holding you back. You just throw money at it, whereas the way things are now, you have to stop. You have to think about it. You have 30 minutes to decide. You've got to revise your offer. But when it's real time, it's really easy to keep throwing an extra 5 or 10 grand at something if you really want it.
STEVE SARETSKY: Can I just chime in?
JESSY BAINS: [INAUDIBLE]. Yes, please do.
STEVE SARETSKY: Well, yeah, how many taxes and new policies have we brought into the housing market BC and Ontario over the last three, four years? I mean, last time I checked, you had a record price growth over the last 18 to 24 months. And it's only now that mortgage rates are getting to four and we're starting to see a slowdown.
So to John's point, it's like these fake teaser listing prices, I mean, good luck with that strategy in two or three months from now. I mean, it's already starting to not work. So I think the market ebbs and flows. I know that people want more transparency and open bidding process. But you know, all I do is always say like, look at Australia. They've got an auction style. Last time I checked their house prices are equally as bad or worse than Canada's, so you know.
JESSY BAINS: OK, let's move on to Aleia. Aleia asks-- and this one's for John because it's as in his neck of the woods-- is it possible to let me know about selling a semi-detached in the Malton area, if now is a good time, since I missed the bidding war? I guess her situation depends, right John? We don't know if she's bid on a house that's going to close and what her exact deal is. But what were your message to her?
JOHN PASALIS: I mean, if you-- it's hard to time the market. Like, sell if you want to sell, if you want to move on. The market's still a seller's market. You know, I think there's a lot of talk about this slowdown. And I think to some sellers are panicking too quickly. Like at the end of the day, it's still a seller's market.
We missed-- you may have missed the period where every single home is getting 15 offers, but homes are still selling for decent prices as long as sellers are patient. The ones that are selling for below what they should are generally sellers who are anxious, who've already bought, and who needs to sell. But the ones that are patient are still doing OK.
JESSY BAINS: So what do you think about that strategy, John, buying before-- or selling before you buy, buying before you sell? What's the right way? I know you can't always time it exactly the way you want to. But what should come first? It's like a chicken or the egg kind of situation when it comes to real estate. What's your view?
JOHN PASALIS: I mean I'm highly risk averse so I normally would sell first, but that is not the norm. Like 95% of people in Toronto would buy first and then sell. And to be honest, most of the time it's the right approach. The market's pretty busy. It's hard to find a home. Houses sell quickly.
You know, these are the periods where it starts becoming a little bit more questionable because when the market-- when the momentum is slowing, you've got to imagine you're buying in a busy period. And by the time you sell, you're selling in potentially a slower market, right? And that's why if you're going to buy and then sell, you've got to list your home like within a week. You don't want to wait four weeks because the market could be very-- we've seen how the market is turned already in four weeks. So you know, you've got to mitigate your risk, get a long closing, and basically list right away.
JESSY BAINS: Yeah, she's a fickle one, that market OK, let's move on to Sunil. Sunil wants to know-- let's give this one to Steve because I know he's talked up Alberta a little bit. But I'm planning to buy a single family home, so just looking for the market. And it would be a great help if I could get some idea. Will the housing market in Canada, especially in Alberta and Ontario, cool down in the near future?
So let's start with Alberta. Steve, I know you've talked about Calgary as a good destination for somebody looking to buy a home. But do you-- I know it's heated up a little bit. I'm not sure. I'm not too up to speed on the numbers. But do you expect Calgary, Alberta, Edmonton to slow a little bit too the way we're seeing in Ontario and BC?
STEVE SARETSKY: Yes, as maybe-- you know, I'm not exactly the expert per se, but I do think-- I look at Calgary market and I think there's less-- there's about a month of inventory, I think, for single family houses. So it's a really tight market. It's not-- it's not something that people in Calgary are used to, but they are getting a lot of capital from Vancouver and Toronto that's pouring into that market.
And if you look at affordability metrics, it's still one of the most affordable metrics in Canada. I think affordability metrics are better today than they were like 8 or 9 or 10 years ago. So I think ultimately, yeah, could 4% mortgages slow it down? Sure, but like, I'm more concerned about price valuations and market corrections in some of the frothier markets in the suburbs of Vancouver, the suburbs of Ontario, where you've seen prices almost double in three years, that's already a very highly-levered market.
$And now you tack on rising mortgage rates? I think that those are the markets in my opinion that are kind of ripe for corrections. I think Calgary, Edmonton, I mean those markets are so cheap already. What are they going to correct? Like a house goes from 500,000 to 485,000? I just don't get too concerned about that.
JESSY BAINS: OK, now let's move on to Sina Ammo. This comes to us by way of Twitter. And the question here is, hey Steve, what do you think of the probability of presales being underwater when the project is completed? This is the one that's coming up a lot. So I'm looking to buy a two-bedroom low rise in Langley. And I'm quoted 800,000, completion being in 2025. Thanks in advance for all that you are doing. Thank you. Steve.
STEVE SARETSKY: It's a lot of money for Langley. I think it always depends on-- on the project, right? That's the first question we've talked about in the show. I'd be asking who is the developer, are they reputable, are they actually complete the project if the market turns south? What's the deposit structure?
I mean, in Langley I don't think I'd be putting down 20% deposit. I think that's way too much for that market. I don't know the square footage of that unit. I don't know if it's a high-rise or if it's a low-rise wood frame. But all I can say is presales in general, presales in general today are for the most part fully priced. I think they're baking in a lot of future price expectations. I think the presale pricing today is optimistic about the future of the housing market.
So I would be a little bit cautious on presale side. Now don't get me wrong. There's still some presales out there that I do like and that I would say you're fine. But as a whole, I think that there's been better times to buy presales.
JESSY BAINS: OK. That is all of your questions for this show. Let's move on now to the budget.
A bit of a follow up to some of the announcements we got, none of the big blockbusters that we've talked about on this show, like in my view, though, the one-- raising the CMHC limit from 1 million to 1.25 could have been a big one. Any sort of taxes on investors could-- a larger tax. Could have been a bigger one, not being able to use your HELOC. So it was a lot of the stuff that we expected, I think, the marquee being the foreign buyers tax.
We're going to listen to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau the day after the budget was released. He's at an affordable housing announcement. But before we hear what he has to say, I just want to remind everybody that prices have, in fact, more than doubled under his watch. But let's have a listen to what he had to say and then I'll get you guys to weigh in. Have a listen.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU: When foreign investors and corporations use housing as an asset, it drives prices higher and higher, and makes homes out of reach of the middle class. Homes are to live in, to raise a family in, to build a life in, not a way to boost the balance sheet.
JESSY BAINS: So like-- John, I see you're sort of chuckling there. What do you-- what goes through your mind when you hear him say that? And what's sort of like your overall view of those measures that were announced and what they'll do for affordability, if anything?
JOHN PASALIS: I mean, I think my view is probably one that's shared with a lot of people who are trying to buy a home, which is like just exhausted of hearing these stories, because it's like they've been in the government since what, 2015? As he said, house prices have doubled. And the reality is, they didn't do anything. Like, they're not-- they're not getting rid of corporations buying homes. They've kind of indicated they might just might tax them, you know?
They're not really doing anything about foreign buyers. I mean, a lot of the policies they put in place have so many loopholes. So they're really not doing anything on the housing front. I mean, they make a lot of promises. They've been promising a lot since 2015. But as you said, house prices have doubled.
And I think a lot of people kind of hear a lot of this talk and just kind of not buying it anymore because nothing's been done in seven years. So anyways, I think it's-- and I think the budget was a bit disappointing for a lot of people because there's nothing really meaningful in that that's going to have any material impact.
JESSY BAINS: OK, Steve, what is your takeaway?
STEVE SARETSKY: Well, I just want to mention because I think there's some misunderstanding, because every media headline picked it up, foreign-buyer ban. But if you actually read the budget-- so a lot of the housing policies that were brought in or proposed here actually have timelines and specific dates that are going to be introduced. The foreign-buyer ban, as per the budget says-- their words, not mine-- we, quote, "intend to propose restrictions. We intend to propose restrictions."
So there's not actually any firm dates or timelines. It's just it's an intention to make a proposal. So this is actually going to get approved through Parliament. I don't know if this policy will actually ever see the light of day.
JESSY BAINS: Interesting. OK, I want to turn to another politician who's getting a lot of attention, generating a lot of energy on this file. And that's Pierre Poilievre. He's running to be the leader of the conservatives. He put out a video that's being widely shared, standing in front of a rundown Vancouver home which is 4 point something million dollars today. And he says it's something that a typical family could have afforded to live in a couple-- only a few decades ago.
He's really hitting the housing file hard. Let's have a listen to this-- what he had have to say in this video about his plans.
PIERRE POILIEVRE: Well, a Poilievre government will stop the central bank from printing cash for politicians to spend and the wealthy to borrow. That will deal with some of the over demand. But on the supply side, a Poilievre government would require municipalities like Vancouver to speed up building permits and reduce the governmental cost associated with building things.
My message to city hall here in Vancouver is remove the gatekeepers. Stop blocking the poor, the working class, and our immigrants from the privilege of owning a home here in this country. It used to be a right and it should be again.
JESSY BAINS: So John, real quick. We're running against the clock here. But do you think this sort of messaging could be the thing that helps Pierre Poilievre become the next prime minister of Canada someday?
JOHN PASALIS: 100%. I mean, and I think even if the policies themselves he's proposing aren't a solution, I think people are-- I think are tired of the liberals. I think Pierre's a great communicator. I think his message is resonating with people, you know? And people are just are more hopeful that he's actually going to address this issue. So I do think that his message and his style is certainly resonating with voters that have been priced out of the housing market.
JESSY BAINS: OK, and Steve Saretsky, what is your view on that?
STEVE SARETSKY: Yeah, I mean, I think like I said, love him or hate him, I think his message is clear and concise. He's getting through to the audience that he's looking for. And I've had a few chats with him. And I think he's-- I think he means well. He's pointing out a lot of the obvious problems.
I think he's doing a great job in opposition here. Obviously I still think a lot of these problems are very, very large problems that I'm skeptical one person can fix. But I think he is certainly beating the right drum. And I think that if you pull a lot of millennials, I think it's actually resonating with them, which is probably not typical for a Conservative Party leader.
JESSY BAINS: Absolutely. OK, that brings us to the end of this show. And it brings us to the end of this series. This is our last show. We have certainly enjoyed these discussions. We've-- you have all learned a lot. I've learned a lot. Thank you so much, John Pasalis, for being with us during these --
JOHN PASALIS: Yeah, thanks for having me.
JESSY BAINS: --20 plus episodes.
JOHN PASALIS: It's been a blast.
JESSY BAINS: Yeah, it has indeed. And thank you so much, Steve Saretsky.
STEVE SARETSKY: Jessy, I'm going to miss you dearly, my friend. Thanks for having me on.
JESSY BAINS: I'm going to--
STEVE SARETSKY: This has been awesome.
JESSY BAINS: Yes, it has. And thank you to everybody that sent all your questions in. We have answered I don't-- I've lost count. There's a lot to learn from you two. It's been great. Be sure to fo-- I'm moving on to new adventures.
But in the meanwhile, be sure to check out John and Steve on Twitter. They will continue to have all kinds of information, insight, stats to the housing markets. Hit them up with your questions there. Meanwhile, do check back in at "Yahoo Finance Canada" for lots of stories about real estate, the economy, stock markets, all that and more. Thanks so much for watching.