Amazon's failed union vote hasn’t ‘stopped anything’: The Congress of Essential Workers

Chris Smalls, Founder of The Congress of Essential Workers, joins Yahoo Finance’s Max Zahn, Alexis Christoforous and Kristin Myers to discuss the latest from Amazon’s union vote count and labor charges.

Video Transcript

KRISTIN MYERS: Welcome back. Well, an effort to unionize Amazon warehouse workers failed after the ballots were counted today. And we're joined now by a former Amazon employee who was fired after attempting to organize workers into a walkout to protest conditions. We're joined by Chris Smalls, founder of the Congress of Essential Workers, and Yahoo Finance's Max Zahn.

So Chris, let's start with you. Why do you think these efforts to unionize those workers at that Alabama warehouse failed?

CHRIS SMALLS: Well, several things. You know, it's their first attempt, you know, I know everybody expected everybody to, I mean, Alabama to come through on the first try. But we also got to think about the intangibles. You know, this building is less than a year old, a little bit over a year old. So it's fairly new. And the workers that were organizing it, they did a great job reaching out [INAUDIBLE] hire a workforce that was hired with that building to get to that 3,000, to get the vote to make it even possible.

But Amazon has been firing and hiring workers ever since then. So you see that 55%, we're talking about, they got rid of a lot of the workers who initially signed those union cards. So it's a number of things, on top of the union busting that they've been doing, absolutely, that played a big role. But a lot of the workers that initially signed that union card [INAUDIBLE] there anymore. And that's a issue that also needs to be addressed as well.

MAX ZAHN: And hey, Chris, this is Max. I want to ask you, the union has said now today that it plans to bring labor charges against Amazon for what it alleges was anti-union harassment that illegally affected the results of this vote. What do you think of those charges, considering your background with the company? And do you think that's likely to be successful in overturning this result and causing them to rerun this election?

CHRIS SMALLS: I believe they got a very strong case there. I was down in Bessemer. I did see that mailbox surrounded by that tent. I know that it definitely was a clear violation of the rules. Also, that website, Do It Without Dues, the pamphlets they handed out, the pens and stuff they handed out, the stickers. The things they did was unprecedented for sure and definitely need to be held accountable for. And I hope that they do overturn the results and re-hold the election, a fair shot where there is no mail box illegally placed on the property.

But I, once again, you know, if the workers there now decide to unionize, I think that, you know, this is just the beginning. You know, I hope that they really try again. And they already galvanized the rest of the nation. So I think we will see a [? still ?] a uprising of the cause.

MAX ZAHN: And Chris, you're in touch with a lot of Amazon workers, some of whom, in light of this organizing drive in Bessemer, have been saying that they want to start union drives at Amazon in their own facilities. I wonder if you've spoken with any of those workers since this result came down today, if you've heard anything from them, and whether you think, as some do, that this could discourage workers from organizing their own facilities, considering the risk that it takes to do so and this landslide vote against the union in Bessemer.

CHRIS SMALLS: So yes, I have spoken to several workers in several different locations. And I can assure you that there are efforts that already have begun. And there will be efforts that will be going public very soon. And I know, for one in particular that I'm a part of, and that's right here in my home base, so to speak, at JFK Staten Island. I know a lot of workers there that are ready, are even more determined to unionize even after the failed vote.

Because they seen, you know, the pros and cons. They seen the missed opportunities. They see how they have an advantage. And they have, now they have options. They have options to choose from. And they know what they're dealing with when it comes to union busting, what Amazon is going to do to that building. So they're prepared for that as well.

So I don't think that it stopped anything, the failed vote today. Even though it was a landslide, I don't think that still represents the working class. I don't think it represents the workers of that building. I think Amazon just pretty much cheated, so to speak. And we knew that that was going to happen. Now it's our time to pretty much continue to fight and press on and just try again. And I believe that it absolutely will happen, guarantee it.

ALEXIS CHRISTOFOROUS: Chris, what would you say, though, to those employees who say, look, I'm making minimum wage and I'm getting health benefits, a lot of companies don't afford me that. If I unionize, I'm not guaranteed any better pay and I have to pay union dues. So how will my life really improve here at Amazon? For those workers who are of that mindset, what would you say to them?

CHRIS SMALLS: Well, simple, you know, I would tell them, take a look at some of the stories you heard in the last year about workers being fired and retaliated against. It wasn't just me. It was several others, several, across the country, across the world, that was ousted by this company. I just talked to Tim Bray last night, you know, Tim Bray, a VP AWS who resigned in solidarity with the workers who stood up last year, including myself.

So these stories resonated with the workers. I can tell you that. When I spoke to them in person down there, a lot of the workers I spoke to, they didn't know my story. They didn't know what happened in New York. They didn't know what happened with other Amazon workers. So that conversation was very powerful.

The disconnect is how do we reach the mass within these facilities? You know, you could bring senators down there. You could bring celebrities down there. But do that really, really reach those workers? I don't think so. You know, when workers work 10, 11, 12 hour days, they don't come home and jump on social media or jump on the media. They have to take care of their families and rinse and repeat.

So what I just try to do is have a conversation, a real conversation with workers, letting them know that I have been there for almost five years. And I can assure you, the things that Amazon is offering you is not what you think it is. You know, it seems like it's a lot, but it's really breadcrumbs. And at the end of the day, your body, physically and mentally, is going to take a toll and pay the ultimate price years later. So you want to think about the long term, not just the short term.

KRISTIN MYERS: All right. We will leave that there. And of course, continue to keep an eye on any further unionizing attempts that might be made from some of those Amazon workers.

Chris Smalls, founder of the Congress of Essential Workers, Yahoo Finance's Max Zahn, thank you both for today's conversation.