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Cleveland-Cliffs Inc. (CLF)

NYSE - NYSE Delayed Price. Currency in USD
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19.98+0.16 (+0.81%)
At close: 4:00PM EDT
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  • P
    Paul
    Does LG hedge his energy input costs?
    Long and strong here......
  • J
    Joel
    Iron ore doesn’t matter to the bottom line here but it does make other steel companies that use iron ore more attractive than before. That being said the whole steel market as well as the whole market has been hammered the last month. We will run up before earnings and be at $30 by January when my calls expire.
  • s
    stalyon
    Realistically, if and when CLF reaches zero debt, what P/E do you think the stock should command on a fairly-regular basis ?? I would think it would be somewhere between 6-10, but wonder what folks here think.
    Thanks, in advance, for thoughts and comments. GLTA !!
  • W
    Working Stock
    ADB and SouthPark, I deleted my earlier post as you were correct about the 3 and 4 Q EBITDA not assuming the $1175 price after the June update.
    “Full-year expectation is based on the HRC forward curve as of July 22, 2021” was footnoted in the Cliffs update. I presume your $1402 reference is correct, as well.
    Thanks.

    What is your interpretation of the comments made by LG during the MSNBC interview regarding improving contracts terms?
  • l
    louis
    Relax. We will be seeing 30’s within weeks. If you wait a year 70’s.
  • P
    Pedro
    No kidding here. Last week a horse won a race named US Steel. Yesterday in Monmouth Park 10th race a horse named Cliffy won and was a long shot. $2.00 bet returned $48.00
  • H
    HK
    Clients on Robomhood who buy call options on Cliffs have their orders sent to a firm like Citadel Securities, one of the largest market makers in stocks and options. If Citadel takes the opposite side of the trade, they collect the option premium. Today, over 21,000 call options were traded within a price range of $20.50 and $22. Interesting that the stock closed at $20.50 making all these options worthless to the Robinhood investor and potentially total profit for Citadel. Interesting how on Fridays, the stock price often hovers around the option prices.
  • M
    MrK
    Did we bank another 30 million in profit this weekend or is that up to 45 million for a 2 day weekend ? Keep shorting away ………….
  • I
    Ironman
    Why did we lose 1.63 % today? For what? Because of what? Seriously, is there any legal way to approach this issue? This stock is being manipulated everyday. I have personally invested my savings in this stock and what I can see this stock price doesn’t follow any of the fundamentals, company performance, sector trend, etc. This week the CEO announced a $ 20 billion revenue and better sales contracts. Instead of CLF getting skyrocketed, Nucor stock went up and we lost 1.63 % today.
  • S
    Sewall
    It is interesting to see the commentary re CLF now after years of people bashing, trash talking the company, predicting bankruptcy, complaining about the new CEO, etc. The tenor of the commentary has changed and the old naysayers all went broke shorting the stock, as many posters warned them. We unfortunately have the usual ambulance chaser day-traders who think that they are smart enough to predict every tiny move in CLF share price (but in actuality only serve to feed brokerage commissions to Wall Street).

    There are some interesting unrecognized developments yet to come for CLF, including the old Mesabi/Essar iron ore leases, the construction of a second HBI plant, ongoing cost efficiencies, and a large favorable change in perception on Wall Street regarding CLF, among others.

    Many do not realize that the "value" of a steel company is for the great part in its raw material inputs. Nucor was able to carve out an enhanced value proposition by moving to electronic arc furnaces, which allowed for the use of low cost, readily available scrap metal as a raw material. Steel companies, however, without their own source of raw material (iron ore) are at a massive competitive disadvantage. Iron ore (or scrap metal) represents the largest, by far, cost component in manufacturing steel. Without a secure source of raw materials, steel companies are at a massive competitive disadvantage. Nucor's game of using low cost scrap metal raw materials is over. China will drive scrap prices through the roof as they can not procure low pollution iron ore from Australia - as Australia has only has low quality ore. As scrap prices rise and supply becomes tight, established iron ore pellets and HBI will be the low cost raw material. If your steel company does not have its own supply of these, you are in serious long term trouble. The integrated producers, like CLF, that have their own secure low cost supply of ore are in the driver's seat. Both AKS Steel and Arcelor Mital understood this and knew that it was better to sell their US operations to CLF as CLF's iron ore raw material was far more "valuable" than end steel production itself (without captive iron ore raw materials). When the raw iron ore material represents over 60% of the value of the end product steel, the business value resides with the iron ore, not the steel production process. Now that CLF is a fully integrated end-to-end steel producer, its business value is significantly greater than as a stand alone iron ore producer (which in itself was significant). With Nucor's past advantage of using scrap metal (which is not an integrated/captive raw material source) in decline and set to fully disappear, CLF under the leadership of the current CEO will take over the mantle of leadership in the steel market in the United States. Very few people have yet to figure this out or understand it. The CLF has spelled it out piecemeal over the course of conference calls and other. But Wall Street does not yet get it. Wall Street still thinks of Nucor as the bell weather steel stock and company, as the looming scrap metal catastrophe has only started to play out (and is not fully obvious) and CLF has only just become an integrated steel producer. Wall Street will eventually figure it out. It will take time though, which means current CLF stock prices are a huge bargain for those willing to hold their shares for several years. This is not something that happens overnight. It will take time, but by the time everyone figures it out, it will be too late to buy CLF shares at their current bargain levels. The die is cast and there is no reversing the above micro and macro factors that are shifting economic power and value to CLF. Situations like this happen only every so often in business - where the dynamics change dramatically and the previous winning strategy of the leaders (Nucor) proves to be their future failing as they are locked in to a weakening/declining business model with no way to change. Meanwhile, the greatly ignored, prior also-ran (CLF) has made all the necessary (sometimes seemingly expensive and painful) moves for future prosperity, success and dominance as the old guard remains stuck with their institutionalized, long in the tooth approach.
  • B
    BuzzyBuzzyear
    FUNNY: When people hang around a thread hoping to scare people into selling to them. They pretend to be Cleveland Cliffs bears. FOLKS, you don't hang around a thread posting unless you wanna buy CLF.
  • l
    louis
    Max. You mean it was better. CLF will most definitely crush X in the coming months. CLF will be chasing NUCOR. Expecting some nice green action with a bump in volume.
  • l
    louis
    I don’t care about float. I invest on fundamentals and how CLF will be responding to present conditions X will not be able to keep up with Clf in the near future. When you can control all aspects of your fishes goods you can’t over look that.
  • R
    Ron1
    How do close followers handicap CLF’s chances now of landing what they have sought additionally in the Nashwauk mining area vs US Steel late to the game now trying to win that for themselves instead. I’ve heard the CEO and management of X described in less than glowing terms, while the opposite is true for LG of CLF. According to CLF bulls. Plus they started their quest years earlier. Is CLF considered to be the front runner? Heavy favorite if so or bo way to tell at this point? This is a big strategic win for CLF if they land the deal over X?
  • S
    Sewall
    I have read over the years commentary on the chat board on how the CLF CEO's exiting the company's Australia iron ore business was a bad move, especially since the China steel market and iron ore prices have recovered greatly since.

    Let's put this one to bed.

    Australia makes the lowest quality iron ore in the world as the iron ore regions there are desert and have no adequate supply of water. High grade, low pollution iron ore pellet making requires water, so Australia is locked into the very low end, low price commodity iron ore fines market with no other options. China was happy to oblige Australia as a customer, buying cheap, heavily polluting, low grade Australian iron ore. This fit China's business model perfectly. Use the cheapest raw materials, manufacture low quality steel in huge quantities, flood the world market with underpriced low grade steel, while ignoring the brutal pollution across China's major cities. This is clearly an unsustainable business model. The pollution factor was the pivot point. It became impossible to breath in Beijing (I am not kidding). Sanctions on China dumping steel worldwide also added impetus to the unsustainable China model. The CLF CEO saw this coming well before others. He knew that Australia's iron ore business was hurtling towards a brick wall. Furthermore, CLF's Australia iron ore mine was running out of ore reserves. It would have required CLF to make a huge investment in additional mining and leasehold improvements in Australia to keep that business going. This was money that would not have been well spent, especially when the opportunities in the United States were so excellent. Because of China's massive pollution problem, China's steel producers must move to scrap metal and EAFs to produce steel. They can not stay with blast furnace technology as China has no available source of iron or pellets or HBI. Australia can not produce pellets or HBI to sell to China. As China moves into scrap metal procurement to procure raw material for steel production, the dynamics for EAF producers (especially Nucor) around the world will get worse and worse - higher scrap demand, tighter supplies, and much higher prices. This makes the US steel market a bonanza for CLF as Nucor will lose all of its competitive advantage and actually become a disadvantaged competitor. CLF's Australia business was a tiny player in a commodity market dominated by a couple large players, especially BHP. Being a two bit player in a low quality, low price commodity market with your primary customer market (China) moving away from your products, it made zero sense for CLF to continue with its Australia business. It was a brilliant move by CLF to exit Australia and focus on the United States, HBI, and other.
  • B
    BuzzyBuzzyear
    It's just math: IF everything our CEO said yesterday on CNBC is true: $7.20-7.80 in earnings next 12-months x P/E of 11 = $80-ish share price. I can wait.
  • s
    sam
    So we are about 1 month from earnings. Thumbs up or down. 20% up or 5% down by earnings. I say up without a doubt.
  • B
    Booleansearcher
    LONG AND STRONG WHERE YOU BELONG. The swing from tech to commodities is taking hold and THE CLIFF will rocket higher...still holding to my $50 end of year price point. Also heavy into energy. Boolean
  • D
    DrillDownClown
    Under no senario is there one iota of positive news for short traders in CLF, NUE, X and others...NONE!
  • I
    Ironman
    I remember some of you folks shared your opinion couple of weeks ago, yet I have hard time to understand how the CLF price is less than a quarter of NUE? Cliffs, as emphasized couple of times yesterday by LG, does not need to pay surcharge for its feed material i.e. iron ore as it owns vast iron ore mines. It’s a huge advantage as well as cost saving (more profit). One the other hand, Nucor has to buy and ship both scrap and iron ore from domestic and overseas’ sources. Both companies have a single DR plant inside the country. Nucor has another one overseas, but Cliffs owns BF facilities after the acquisition/merger. Everything from fundamentals favors CLF shares, but in reality NUE is worth almost five times! Something doesn’t add up here guys. Nucor also pays more to the team, than Cliffs.